What made you want to take part in the Youth Advisory Group? What were your expectations when you applied?

I applied because I have a fondness for this place, especially the garden. I’m one of those people that comes here quite often and regularly enjoys this space, so this invitation, this open door into the Foundation, really spoke to me.

It wasn’t automatic, I still hesitated because I didn’t know if it would be compatible with my life and work. But three different people sent me the application and encouraged me to join. So, I applied to meet people’s expectations to some degree.

That’s interesting, that there were several people who see in you this type of role. But aside from the garden, was there anything else at the Gulbenkian Foundation or CAM that particularly appealed to you?

The architecture. I really like architecture and a lot of my work deals with architecture and urban nature. Aside from the garden and inside the institution, it says a lot about my identity and the fact that I feel comfortable here.

The Youth Advisory Group has working for a few months now. What have been your favourite moments so far?

I think I’m going to be biased here. I’m going to go for the event on 18 May, International Museums Day.

It created a lot of expectation. And I’m someone who doesn’t have too many expectations. Normally, someone opens the door for me, and I go along, and together we figure out what we’re going to do and what’s going on.

But this Museums Day, which was the first event where we all worked as a team and could all give our input, was one of the things that has stuck with me the most because of how proud I felt of the group, and also the way we were treated at the Foundation and CAM.

I’m proud of this group, because we all come from very different areas, and I’m used to doing events, but seeing my colleagues doing these events and realising that they can also be these cultural agents and offer their own input really impressed me.

That’s one of the things I hoped for. That anyone, whoever they are, can have an input into this Foundation.

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What do you think a young person expects from a cultural institution today?

To be heard. Because I feel that there’s been an evolutionary boom in the last 20-30 years, with the appearance of the Internet, and the intergenerational gap is widening.

So, for young people, it’s about feeling heard. That they [cultural institutions] use words and language that young people use, that they have events that young people regularly engage with, both in Portugal and abroad. Things that they’ll go looking for outside but which this cultural institution can offer right here in Lisbon, because the demand is there.

And that’s where what we’re doing here comes from. It’s a listening process involving young people.

Basically, it’s about feeling heard. Feeling that there’s a bit of them in the institution.

In your case, you’re also an artist. What does a young artist look for in a cultural institution?

I associate a lot my artistic life with creativity, and creativity is about creating activity. So, when I come here, to a foundation, I try to create that activity. I feel that one of the things you must do is redefine the meaning of art and artist: what can you call an artist and what can you call art?

And what can these institutions be doing that chases away someone like you, an emerging artist, a young artist?

Honestly, I’d say that criteria and evaluation are two big issues: what defines an artist, what defines “good” art, art that’s “important”, and art that isn’t? I feel that all this needs to be redefined.

But bearing in mind my perspective on what an artist is – that an artist should be free, free to think and imagine and, no matter how utopian or dystopian the theme or the way they’re tackling it – and that the institution should have a place for that person.

I’m starting from a very external point of view. The institution, in this case, should consider things from an outside perspective so that it can see and be prepared for any eventuality when it comes to art and artists.

It’s perhaps a lack of flexibility that ends up putting a lot of people off…

Because the world is constantly changing. And artists are the ones who dictate that change.

So, if the institution isn’t keeping up with those changes, it slows things down a lot. Artists die, artists stop doing things, artists focus on other things… artists lose their energy, their drive. And these things are all crucial. A cultural institution can’t afford to ignore all of this.

You’re part of the ‘The Blacker the Berry’ colletive, which focused on the black queer community. How can you imagine CAM working with this community?

Firstly, it’s about representation.

It’s not just the black community nor just the queer community. We’re bringing together two major social issues. So, you end up with people who are extremely vulnerable to more than one form of aggression. In fact, I’d go as far as creating ‘Safer Spaces’. We should always be open to anything that might come up.

So, I think we should focus on creating these safe spaces, which also entails reaching out to people from these communities. We should not get people from outside those communities to talk about these issues, this is something we shouldn’t be doing any more, and I think this institution still does that to a certain extent.

For example, I remember attending a presentation of a book on colonialism, and I wondered why no one from the community was there and thought that it would be nice to have more diversity.

But, as a community, we’re no longer having those kinds of conversations. For us, colonialism is already clearly understood and we’re more in the process of decolonisation rather than still talking about colonisation and what it was like.

At the start of the Advisory Group project, we asked you to choose two works from the CAM collection: you chose ‘A World of Illusions’ by Grada Kilomba and ‘A Lanterna Onírica’ [The Dream Lantern] by José Manuel Espiga Pinto. Why these two?

The Grada Kilomba one because it’s very dear to me. She’s an artist I’ve been following, who’s been doing some great work, and I’m proud to see her here as one of the black artists represented in the Collection.

I identify with her, so it gives me the confidence that I can get there too. Before joining the Youth Advisory Group, I didn’t realise she had works in the Collection. I’d seen this work in an exhibition in Paris a while back and I really liked it. And then to see that CAM had acquired the trilogy was exciting.

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And the other work, I had no idea who the artist was, it was pure curiosity. I wanted to discover something. I had no idea whose work it was or how it was made. It was just curiosity from looking at it, and also because I liked the painting. It spoke to me, otherwise I wouldn’t have chosen it.

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