What made you want to get involved with the Youth Advisory Group (YAG)?

I was in Budapest with some friends when I first saw the invitation. We had already visited two museums, including the National Gallery. We had gone up to the first floor together and looked at the paintings. But the museum has four floors. Once we’d done the first floor, my friends went up the stairs, spotted some free seats, and most of them stayed there playing cards in the middle of the museum.

Only three of us went on to see some other rooms. Then we realised there was another floor, and then another… At one point we got a call from our friends who had stayed behind to play cards, asking when we were going to leave. They had already gone through all the games they knew.

That’s when I made my decision. I’d already seen the invitation but hadn’t yet decided whether to sign up or not. After that experience, I realised that museums aren’t connecting effectively with some young people. I thought I could make a difference because I’m interested in why this is, and because I understand where those young people are coming from.

What was your relationship with CAM and Gulbenkian in general before you got involved with this project?

I don’t recall if I was really aware of CAM before this. I’m not sure whether I’d ever visited it. I was already following the Gulbenkian Foundation on Instagram and had been to a few exhibitions, but they were all related to science. I remember ‘Brain – wider than the sky’.

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In upper secondary school, I had a physical chemistry teacher who loved getting us involved in super-curricular activities outside school. She organised visits to exhibitions at weekends for any students who were keen.

I came here three times with that teacher; and also did some sessions that the Education Service put on for autistic children, which provided insights into physics. So I had a bit of contact, but it was rather sporadic.

You mentioned that there are different kinds of expectations and relationships when it comes to culture. What do you think young people expect from a cultural centre like this?

Gulbenkian is more than just a cultural institution! To be honest, it’s difficult to pin down what young people expect. In fact, it’s hard to define ‘young people,’ too. It’s like saying ‘adults.’ It’s just an age category; it doesn’t say anything about the way they think.

That said, certain characteristics are common to young people, so I like to believe that young people are expecting to be challenged. We’re still willing to be moulded. I imagine that young people come here to test themselves, to question themselves, not just to look around. It’s more of an ‘inner seeing,’ if you like.

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We’re approaching the final session of the Youth Advisory Group, which has been running for some time now. Were there any stand-out moments over the months you’ve been involved?

First of all, I’ve been struck by the way everything works, the way people talk to each other… I come from an engineering background, so I’m used to discussions that are very yes or no, or yes and no at the same time, where the possible outcomes tend to be limited.

At CAM, it’s much more of a conversation, a dialogue, with lots of possibilities. It’s a spectrum rather than a series of options. So I really enjoyed this kind of work, where things were much freer. It was a great learning experience – learning to open up.

To answer the question, I wouldn’t pinpoint one particular moment, but the very first session did make me realise that things worked differently at CAM. I really enjoyed the ‘Silent Party’ and I think it has a bit of me in it, given that I helped to organise it. That felt like a real accomplishment.

As well as advising at CAM, you’re also a consultant at Júnior Empresa do Instituto Superior Técnico (JUNITEC). So, you have two consultancy roles. What are the differences and similarities in your consultancy work in these two very different arenas?

Technology consultancy, which is what I studied at university, is all about developing technological solutions for companies. It’s very practical, very yes or no. It’s about developing, writing code, managing a team and creating a finished product.

Here at CAM, it’s more a matter of sparking discussion, trying to set a course and working out what does or doesn’t make sense. It’s about voicing an opinion rather than creating a product in the usual sense. Actually, it’s more that simply stating a view, because we feel that we’re also shaping something. Our work won’t exactly result in a finished product, but we’re engaged in a process of trying to imagine what the Gulbenkian of the future, or the CAM of the future, could be.

Your background is in STEM, in aerospace engineering. The other members of the Youth Advisory Group have a background in art, social sciences or humanities. As something of an outsider, what was your role in the group?

First and foremost it was an opportunity for me to learn a lot. I’d never had the chance to learn much about the arts as I simply hadn’t gone down that route. But here I learned a great deal from working alongside people who are actively making art. It was a fascinating experience.

The fact that I’d come from a completely different area sparked a lot of curiosity among the rest of the group. There was an awareness that we’re not just shaping a modern art centre for artists, but for everyone who visits it.

And, because I represent people who visit, but don’t have an artistic background myself, the other members of the group always wanted to hear what I had to say, not just about CAM but also about their work. They’re keen to understand what makes sense to people who aren’t artists. When everyone is completely immersed in the art world, there’s a risk of forgetting that not everyone who visits is an artist, and nor should they be.

You may remember that early on, when you’d just started, you were asked to select two pieces from the CAM Collection. You chose a chair by Mario Bellini and a painting by Jorge Queiroz, ‘Now I’ve got a witness’. Why did you choose those particular pieces?

It was a difficult choice. I’m not hugely knowledgeable about art.

Actually, I have a funny story about my choice of Jorge Queiroz. When I looked at all the images of the collection on the website, that one stood out to me.

I ended up choosing a piece of his as one of my two works because it spoke to me in some way. At the time, I didn’t realise why. I often go to the Brotéria cultural centre to study. A few months later, I went there as usual, and happened to glance at a painting opposite the table where I like to sit. I went over to see who had painted it, and it was Queiroz.

I didn’t know it at the time, but I had chosen it because I felt a connection with it. I’d seen that painting many times – it draws my gaze more than any other at the Brotéria – but I hadn’t previously associated it with the artist.

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As for the chair (by Mario Bellini), I simply love furniture and design. My grandfather on my mother’s side was a big influence in that regard, as he restored pieces of furniture. I’ve always liked it for that reason. I’m also a big fan of architecture.

If I had to be an artist, I’d probably go for something more along the lines of architecture, not least because it’s also close to engineering. And I think architects are often interested in furniture design, too, so that made sense to me. 

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Finally, what were your expectations for the new CAM?

Helping to the CAM while it wasn’t yet open was fascinating because there was scope for CAM to grow. Everyone wants to see CAM grow in a different way, for it to be reborn in a different way.

I didn’t have any expectations that drew upon what CAM was like before, because I didn’t know it that well. Now I want a CAM where my friends want to come and not just play cards on the floor. That’s my main hope for this place.